What a fucking joke. Why are we expected to take these people seriously? Communism will win, Death to America.
Their “determined to dominate”
Our “determined to ensure we lead the world”
What a bell-end. Maybe instead of tariffs the US should begin vesting in education, job training, and research into these sectors so it can compete instead of trying to hobble the competition in the domestic market. This is just protectionism by a different name
That takes too long, Ford wants money now
Steel I get. That’s an environmental issue since US creation is way more carbon friendly. However the rest makes no sense without an announcement in domestic investment that is pulled from currently used non-environmental budgets.
Wait we gave the Auto industry money for EVs and 50k SUVs were the result? Holy shit, that’s right up there with giving 4 billion to the telecoms for no actual network expansion.
And did that money go directly into production?
Or did it pad some folks pockets?
Here’s some highlights from the sources I put in the original comment since you can’t be asked to open them…
Clay, New York: Funding will support the construction of the first two fabs of a planned four fab “megafab” focused on leading-edge DRAM chip production. Each fab will have 600,000 square feet of cleanrooms, totaling 2.4 million square feet of cleanroom space across the four facilities—the largest amount of cleanroom space ever announced in the United States and the size of nearly 40 football fields.
Boise, Idaho: Funding will support the development of a high-volume manufacturing (HVM) fab, with approximately 600,000 square feet of cleanroom space focused on the production of leading-edge DRAM chips. The fab would be co-located with the company’s existing, leading-edge R&D facility to improve efficiency across its R&D and manufacturing operations, reducing lags in technology transfer and cutting time-to-market for leading-edge memory products.
at least $40 million in dedicated CHIPS funding for training and workforce development to ensure local communities have access to the jobs of the future.
the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) through its Loan Programs Office (LPO) today announced the closing of a $362 million loan to CelLink Corporation (CelLink) to help finance the construction of a domestic manufacturing facility that will produce components essential to electric vehicle (EV) assembly. Located in Georgetown, Texas, the facility will develop lighter and more efficient flexible circuit wiring harnesses—sets of wires and related equipment that relay information and carry electricity throughout vehicles. Once fully operational, the facility is expected to produce enough wiring harnesses to support the manufacture of approximately 2.7 million EVs per year and create 165 construction jobs and more than 1,200 permanent jobs.
The official source for the solar for all does have a broken link which is supposed to direct you here where it explain each of the 60 grants that were issued.
To awnser your question, production.
Located in texas isnt likely to sit well with baron von abbott and his henchmen
It’s cool how you just take them at their word.
But my point is that none of this is being done efficiently. Instead, middlemen siphon money from the project to pad their pockets and stretch out the timelines for completion. I won’t be surprised if some of these projects go over budget, over time, or need additional funding.
Wake me up when these projects complete. Then we can look at how much they really cost and how long it really took and how much they really produce.
Love how you slide them goalposts around
The money does not go directly to production, that’s the goal post. It goes through a dozen people’s hands before the ground is ever broken on one of these projects, and every one of those hands takes their cut to pad their pockets. That was my point.
yes
This is helpful, thank you.
Pretty sure the steel tariff is a bad thing too. There are certain grades of steel that just aren’t produced in the US. People threw a fit over it when trump did the same thing.
nice now the all the cartels will start wheeling and dealing cpus and evs woo woo…
Yeah, screw Biden at this point. He’s basically 2016 Trump on so many policies. 2024 Trump is going to be worse but so what.
Yeah, screw Biden at this point. He’s basically 2016 Trump on so many policies. 2024 Trump is going to be worse but so what.
You might want to spend a wee bit more time educating yourself on these issues. Because you are so horribly wrong it’s not even funny.
Not at all. Stop being brainwashed. Voted for him in the past. Won’t again.
These go right against our goals to increase use of solar and EVs. ☹️
It does sadly. On the flip side, China seems to be trying to capture car manufacturing markets by subsidizing their producers. This would probably be a bad thing in the future if allowed. Hopefully the US government does more work on making it easier to purchase electric cars in the US(specifically the price) while also reducing the need for driving.
What exactly is wrong with a country subsidizing green energy products? Not only that, but making them available cheaply to other countries?
I’m not precisely sure where I stand on this, but I understand the primary policy arguments for this decision would be something like this:
The problem comes later, when a specific actor has an outsized market share and then exploits their trade advantage for other concessions.
It also prohibits domestic competition for those products, especially in countries with high standards of living and wages. This negates competition and innovation, since most corporations don’t have the ability to compete with an entity with the capacity to eat cost like the Chinese government.
The point of trade decisions, is to import products you don’t have enough domestic production to cover the demand for.
We know that the US auto and oil industries have no sincere desire to build EVs anyway (or any green industry whatsoever), because they did their best to kill their domestic production of EVs in the 90s, and there’s no US industry for solar panels.
This is all just part of the US’s trade war with China, that is prioritizing the profits of its auto and oil industries over the wellbeing of the environment, and the desires of its citizens for electric vehicles.
I can’t say I disagree with anything you’ve said. It really is silly, given the US auto manufacturer industry’s continuous fuck ups, and pulling out of EVs. But hopefully this makes risk taking more likely in other countries’ car industries to move into the US market. Tesla seemed close to really catching on, but then again EVs have always been seen as “elite” here.
But I suppose the question is whether there is that much demand for EVs? This could protect what demand there is, to at least make an even playing field for US or US ally made EVs.
Speaking to your first point: users of Lemmy aside, I don’t think there’s that much demand for pure electric vehicle yet across the US. We so routinely travel such long distances here, and charging infrastructure just isn’t quite there outside of urban corridors to facilitate the easy usage of fully electric vehicles.
So hopefully this can protect domestic or other countries’ industries until the idiots that comprise the US consumer market catch up to global realities.
But I suppose the question is whether there is that much demand for EVs?
Remove the tariffs / open up the market and you’ll find out. I suspect that there wouldn’t be a need for these tariffs if the demand wasn’t there.
They’re oversaturating the market with low-quality products. This can be a significant problem when there are safety implications.
The Chinese cars are probably much safer on the road then the huge pedestrian killing machines built by US manufacturers.
Truck SUV moment:
Why can’t they just certify cars based on safety and ban unsafe ones instead of blanket ban the entire segment of them. It certainly helps the adoption of EV among masses.
I’m sorry but this argument doesn’t make sense. Don’t you have safety rules in the US? If the Chinese cars aren’t safe to drive nobody should be authorized to drive them in the first place. If they are safe, no need for tariffs then.
This decision has absolutely nothing to do with alleged poor manufacturing quality. It’s protectionism, pure and simple.
It sounds you’re still stuck in the 1990s. Where do our iPhones and other smartphones and our laptops come from? Where do many of the parts in our cars come from? What country has more high speed rail than every other combined? What country has its own space station?
it undermines any less subsidized green energy industry which can lead to monopolies in the long run.
The US Government doesn’t want US automakers to lose market share so that they have plenty of manufacturing capacity that could be retooled to make weapons in case of war.
Makes sense. Also petro-profits.
When a trillion dollars a year doesn’t commit enough warcrimes :(
Also there is no US auto-manufacturer is going all in on EVs, they’re all mostly building gas-guzzling oversized trucks and SUVs. US automakers intentionally killed EVs in the 90s, and hoped no other country would start building them.
Also no US auto-manufacturer is going all in on EVs
Tesla? Rivian? Lucid? Faraday? Fisker?
To be clear, yes, of course I understand that those are all luxury brands, but that doesn’t make your statement any less false.
No, the major auto manufacturers aren’t going all-in on EVs, but that are all getting deeper every year. There’s no reason to expect that progress to slow down, as they’re all quite entrenched in the technology at this point.
Average new car cost is $55,821, and average cost of ownership is $12,182.
The American manufacturers do not want lower prices. Dealerships don’t like electrics because there’s less maintenance.
Tesla? Rivian? Lucid? Faraday? Fisker?
To be clear, yes, of course I understand that those are all luxury brands, but that doesn’t make your statement any less false.
I mean, of course the explicitly EV-making startups are going to be all-in on EVs. The distinguishing feature that makes them not count compared to [established] US auto manufacturers isn’t that their stuff is luxury, it’s that they didn’t exist before and have no previous internal-combustion product line to pivot away from.
What companies have gone all in on EV making that isn’t a relatively new company/startup?
While true, the cost differentials go much deeper, and they affect all products & services.
Michael Hudson: America’s Neoliberal Financialization Policy vs. China’s Industrial Socialism
I’d rather we ensure higher standards of safety and quality for our vehicles, which are already terrifying death machines, but the hit to solar is a real step backwards.
That’s a cop out. Cars aren’t getting registered without meeting safety requirements.
Really important for world emissions for the US specifically to transition to EVs too, considering it has the highest per capita road emissions in the world.
There is zero chance China is that far down.
China is mostly building rail to solve its transportation issues, so this is completely unsurprising.
Cope lol
EVs are expected to reach 45% marketshare in 2024 in CN. Also I guess you haven’t seen their high speed rail network expand over the last decade (pressuring their car market in general). Then you have a lot of capita. So yes the numbers make sense.
China has a lot of capita. Most of them dont have cars.
Most east Asian countries are fairly low down on the list. They have excellent public transport, the world’s best high-speed rail networks, and a significant number of road vehicles are already electric.
Interestingly, China and India, who were told are massive polluters, aren’t even on that list.
That graphic is limited to a comparison of emissions from use of roads only.
Of course, not roads only, the USA is still terrible and China and India are still not on the list.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270508/co2-emissions-per-capita-by-country/
Most of that is because we truck everything and trains only get used for extreme bulk like coal
The big pickup trucks and large SUVs dont help either.
Don’t forget overloading them with hazardous materials, only to eventually inevitably crash and cause another social, economic, and climate disaster!
We can thank the US oil and auto industries (the same ones dictating these green energy tariffs to their political puppets), for that too.
remember when dems made fun of trump for “chi-na” stuff? good times
See, they were making fun of him saying Chai-nuh, and the way he was pursuing hostilities, not the hostilities themselves.
Same deal with the Iraq War until like 2006. Kerry’s pitch was not that it was bad and should be ended but that it was being run incompetently.
Or ask any Blue Maga what specific immigration reforms they want. They want the same thing, they just have minor disagreements on how to get there or even just aesthetics.
We can’t let stopping climate change get in the way of capitalism!
That’s protectionism, not capitalism.
Tomato, tomato. The free market is a myth, there is no part of the economy that goes without manipulation. Anytime business owners can’t directly manipulate the market themselves they bribe governments to do it on their behalf.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that a pure free market exists.
Having a capitalist economy doesn’t mean that you have a pure free market anyway.
Although there are libertarians that would like to have a free market like that, every capitalist economy has regulations in place in an attempt to prevent monopolies and/or businesses having too much power in one area.
That’s no true Scotsman.
No, protectionism exists outside of capitalism and even somewhat goes against the idea of capitalism, especially the free market kind.
That’s theoretical capitalism, in practice there is no free market.
That’s no true Scotsman.
Bait or brain damage. Call it
Also medical supplies, including masks, because COVID is Joever.
It’d be really funny if those raw milk drinkers started a bird flu pandemic during a medical PPE shortage 😂
For every voter who wants a habitable planet, a cheap electric car, or to catch covid less we lose, we’re gonna pick up two moderate republicans!
A) Moderate
B) republican
Pick one
He’s making fun of Chuck Schumer “quote”
That’s the joke.
There’s a total of about 10 never-trump-republicans, and all of them have jobs at NYT, CNN, or MSNBC telling their audience that all the bad things Biden does are electorally smart because there’s a bunch of moderate republican swing voters who will choose diet-fascism over the real thing.
This is the same tack they took in 2016, from Chuck Schumer going “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin” to every pundit saying “suberban women are going to decide this election” and using that to explain why generally unpopular policies are electorally smart.
Can someone explain to me how tariffs help us? Couldn’t I buy a Chinese EV cheaper if there were no tariffs.?
We have a number of subsidies for domestic EV production. That will all be a waste if China’s subsidized EVs undercut the domestic market. This is consistent with a broader effort to boost domestic manufacturing. While at odds with efforts to promote the adoption of green technologies, the administration is trying to strike a balance between competing interests, in this instance balancing consumer access to green tech with job growth, domestic manufacturing, and less reliance on China for critical technologies.
It doesn’t help you.
It helps Elon.
Yeah. That was my biggest gripe actually 😆🫠
Tariffs raise the price of affected goods allowing local suppliers to grow their business and fill the gap. A lot of countries looking to industrialize will institute tariffs to protect their industry so it can grow enough to compete with foreign companies. In our case it’s putting the cart before the horse; our domestic industries are currently unable to supply domestic needs (remember the “logistics” issue at the beginning of COVID?) and several of these goods require specialist knowledge to produce, so it’s not like we can just open a couple factories. Which is the other thing- companies might not invest in new factories as these tariffs could go away tomorrow and it takes time for factories to be built and then to even start producing goods. If the tariffs goes away before anything new is ready they will just shut down.
Correct. If there were no tariffs, you could buy a chinese EV for cheap. In this case for so cheap that the domestic US/Non-Chinese market cannot compete. So in order to protect these markets, the product needs to be made artificially more expensive with tariffs. This way, the domestic markets have a chance of competing.
However, this also isolates the country and provokes retaliation from the other side. This usually results in both sides sabotaging their trade relations with each other (for ex. with tariffs) which is called a trade war.
I would be surprised if China cares too much, there is the rest of the world that needs small cheap EVs and solar panels. But they must do something as response, that’s diplomacy.
I also don’t see the problem to put tariffs to protect domestic products, sometimes it is necessar, but prohibiting completely is not cool.
Yeah but they dont want you to buy Chinese EVs, this essentially pushes non-chinese EVs (so US-made or ones from Europe)
That’s… That’s not how any of this works.
What an awful god damn tweet. Are the tariffs to combat Chinese governmental meddling? If so, great. If not then they’re protectionist stupidity that’s sure to draw a response. This tweet sure makes it sound like it’s the latter. sigh
